I have more lucid dreams.

It wasn’t but a day or two into reading Robert Waggoners new book, Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self , that I found myself experiencing more lucidity in my dreams.

(And hey – not a problem. I will gladly trade waking myself up at all hours of the night in an attempt to induce lucidity for reading a great book on lucid dreaming. )

Other themes from Waggoners book began making their way into my dreams, too – especially how I thought about my dream . . . → Read More: Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self – 3 Questions for author Robert Waggoner]]> Something funny happens when I read books on lucid dreaming:

I have more lucid dreams.

It wasn’t but a day or two into reading Robert Waggoners new book, Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self
, that I found myself experiencing more lucidity in my dreams.

(And hey – not a problem. I will gladly trade waking myself up at all hours of the night in an attempt to induce lucidity for reading a great book on lucid dreaming. )

Other themes from Waggoners book began making their way into my dreams, too – especially how I thought about my dream experiences upon waking.

I’d write my dreams down, and then find myself asking questions like:

• Do dream characters have some kind of free will?
• Do dream characters have their own goals and intentions?
  (…and how much does any of that have to do with me? Everything? Nothing? )
• Can dream characters tell me or show me things I can benefit from?
• Am I fooling myself by thinking I really create and (if lucid) control my dreams?

One of the first points Waggoner makes in his book is that, contrary to our popular understanding of lucid dreaming, lucid dreamers do NOT control the dream.

He explains this using the following analogy:

No sailor controls the sea. Only a foolish sailor would say such a thing. Similarly, no lucid dreamer controls the dream. Like a sailor on the sea, we lucid dreamers direct our perceptual awareness within the larger state of dreaming.

At first glance, this might not sound like a big deal, but this is quite a break from most definitions.

Starting from this mindset, there are many interesting consequences, from refocusing the concept of lucid dreaming beyond a self-centered, sometimes egotistical experience, to wondering then what sort of limits there are in this world that I previously thought of as under my control?

And finally, it begs the question that’s surely on the tip of your tongue right now:

Hey, if I’m not controlling this dream, then who or what is?

…

3 Questions for Robert Waggoner, author of Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self.

I’d like to highlight one of the more startling interactions with dream characters you speak of in your book. In chapter 4, “Beyond Freud’s Pleasure Principle”, you write about an experience in which a lucid dreamer tells a dream character named Sandra that she was a character in her dream, and then:

She replied that I’m a character in her dream.

To prove her wrong, I did various things such as fly around the room and change our environment.

Sandra did similar tricks. Neither of us could influence the other.

After a bit of this, I was very confused and Sandra commented that she, too, was confused.

What do you think interactions like these mean in regards to the identity and motivations of dream characters? Is the question of dream characters having free will a legitimate question?

Ben, thanks for your question.  I first became interested in this topic, when I noticed how many lucid dreamers reported the dream figure looked annoyed or upset after being told they were dream figures.  This did not support the prevailing thesis that all lucid events are the result of expectation and mental modeling.  Looking in to it more deeply, I felt like the Dr. Dolittle of Dream Figures – I wanted to talk to them, and understand them from their perspective.

In the conscious conversation you pulled from my book, lucid dreamers see the shocking complexity of dream figures.  First, the dream figure suggests from its perspective the lucid dreamer is the dream character! Then, it responds rationally to the lucid dreamer’s attempt to demonstrate superiority by showing that it can do everything that the lucid dreamer does.  Finally, it realizes the futility of these attempts at persuasion, and emotionally shows its sense of confusion.

Think about that.  A dream figure shows apparently unique awareness, the ability to observe and rationally respond, and the capacity for emotion.  Incredible.

Like many lucid dreamers who experience these moments, we are left with the sense of some dream figures having awareness roughly equivalent to our own (and sometimes greater!); a point the German psychotherapist and lucid dream researcher, Paul Tholey, suggested also.  So lucid dreamers quickly see that dream figures are much more than mere symbols or ‘a reflection of some aspect of yourself.’ Some dream figures appear basically self-aware.  As such, they demonstrate a unique independence and separate-from-the-waking-self thought process.  Lucid interactions like this may be showing us actual ‘sub-personalities,’ or ‘ego-complexes’ in action.  In lucid dreaming, we may have the means to investigate a continuum of conscious forms; both those beneath our level of awareness and also those beyond it e.g, the Self.

What motivates these dream figures?  Good question. By all appearances, this level of dream figures seems motivated by the desire to be understood.   They don’t seem to have an agenda to dominate or usurp the lucid dreamer – any more than they want to be dominated by the lucid dreamer.  They appear to want recognition, appreciation, possibly even respect.

However, as I point out in my book, there does seem to be another class of dream figures motivated by the desire to educate and assist the lucid dreamer.  They often appear when the lucid dreamer needs help or actively asks for assistance, and refer to themselves as “guides” or “guardians.”  As such, we seem to have different types of dream figures, possibly with different motivations.

Free will?  By their actions in lucid dreams, it definitely appears that some dream figures have a separate-from-the-waking self sense of awareness and act according to their own intents.  So yes, some appear to have a type of freedom of action within that realm.  Of course, a larger subset of dream figures appear to have very little, if any, awareness, and may constitute a more basic level of mental formation.

Through your own experience, you’ve come to the conclusion that lucid dreamers do not control the dream, but rather, act more as a guide through the dream, much in the way a sailor moves through water but does not control the ocean.

In this analogy, it’s easy to imagine the sailors boat propped up in the water, with him navigating, but not controlling, the ocean – but in a lucid dream, when we are manipulating our surroundings and experiences, but are still not the ones ultimately in control of the dream, who or what is?

In my book, I suggest that lucid dreamers “direct the focus” of their dreaming, but “do not control” the entire dream, much like a sailor directs the movement of the boat, but does not control the sea.

Lucid dreamers notice this when they fly through a wall and encounter an entirely new, detailed environment.  Who created that environment and all the details?  Not the lucid dreamer.  He or she was simply flying through a wall.  The lucid dreamer did not consciously pre-determine (or control) that the next room would have two doors, green walls, five desks (some with staplers), three dream figures, etc, etc.  But somehow, that is what the lucid dreamer encounters upon flying through the wall, and basically accepts it without thinking about it or controlling it.

Obviously, something fleshes out the dreamscape, and creates all of these details, which are not consciously considered or intended by the lucid dreamer.  But what does it?  How does it come about?

Here, we have a number of possibilities for dream scene creating: 1) the lucid dreamer’s subconscious dredges up appropriate details through an automatic dream making process, 2) or a hybrid system of subconscious dream making exists both automatic and purposeful, which allows for deep meaning and the entry of apparently aware, independent dream figures, or 3) an inner awareness throws together the dream scene with lightning fast speed, possibly in keeping with certain principles or overall purposes.  Of course, once the dream scene emerges, the lucid dreamer can focus on anything in that dream scene and try to direct it – or if talented, the lucid dreamer can focus his intent on potentially anything (flying to outer space, conducting a dream experiment, smashing the dream scene, etc) and try to achieve it.

From my lucid dreaming and research, I knew that my beliefs, expectations, focus, intent and will appeared to coalesce to help create or direct the formed reality.  However, the surprising elements and sometimes shocking information that I sought out (such as clairvoyant and precognitive information) which appeared in some lucid dreams, suggested that something more was involved.  In my book, I call this the Inner X, an inner unknown – since my waking self was unaware of the information.

In part, this caused me to assume that a larger awareness existed ‘behind the dream.’ So I began posing questions and requests to that non-apparent awareness behind the dream.  I would just shout out what I wanted.  Incredibly, a response would occur – sometimes of mind blowing proportions.

So in answer to your question, it may be that like the human body which has automatic functions and the capacity for intended actions and thought, dream creating has both an automatic function and a capacity for intended action and thought, most easily seen when lucidly aware and actively engaging it.  However, the action and thought can originate from multiple layers of the Self – the conscious waking self in the dream, subconscious intents and/or the inner Self or awareness behind the dream.

Lastly, a more mundane, but rather important question:

In your presentations on lucid dreaming, you often begin by asking people if they’ve ever had a lucid dream. About 80% of the hands go up. One question later reveals that about 35% of the audience has had more than 2 dozen lucid dreams. But if you go further and ask who has had more than 100 lucid dreams, you wrote that you might look out and see just one hand, alone, in a sea of people interested enough in lucid dreaming to actually attend a lecture or conference on the subject.

This point bothers me.

Despite the rich amount of information describing techniques to induce lucidity and assurances from people that it’s not hard to do – it is.

Why do you think this is the case and what can people do differently to change this?

Personally, I feel that this culture does not value dreaming, nor does it approve of altering consciousness.  When you put those two things together, you create a cultural sanction against lucid dreaming.  As social beings, it seems hard to go against the culture and its belief system.

If the culture valued dreaming, and approved of altering consciousness, you would likely find a flourishing of lucid dreaming and a much deeper exploration of it. Individually, we must learn to value dreaming, value active explorations of consciousness, and value lucid awareness.

Some people have written me that these are the reasons they like my book.  I help illustrate the value of lucid dreaming by showing how some lucid dreamers have used it to heal their own bodies and apparently others as well.  How lucid dreamers have been able to seek out conceptual information, unknown information, clairvoyant and precognitive information.  How lucid dreamers have been able to come to a greater understanding of the dream realm, and its interface with waking reality.  How lucidly aware, we have a platform to honestly probe our larger identity and methods for reality creation.

Once we value something, let go of limiting beliefs, and reward or praise the activity, it becomes much easier naturally.

So it is important to un-earth those limiting beliefs, address the fears and hesitations and create what I call a ‘welcoming mental atmosphere’ for lucid dreaming.  That, along with persevering in a proven practice, should get most any truly interested person into the game.

Lucid dreaming does not seem to be everyone’s path.  But I believe almost anyone can become a talented amateur, and see for themselves the potential and beauty of this approach.

…

The official description reads…

Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self is the account of an extraordinarily talented lucid dreamer who goes beyond the boundaries of both psychology and religion. In the process, he stumbles upon the Inner Self.

While lucid (consciously aware) in the dream state and able to act and interact with dream figures, objects, and settings, dream expert Robert Waggoner experienced something transformative and . . . → Read More: Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self, a new book by IASD President Robert Waggoner]]> It’s rare that a book comes out these days that advances the discussion and understanding of Lucid Dreaming, but this is what Robert Waggoner has accomplished with his new book, Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self.

The official description reads…

Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self is the account of an extraordinarily talented lucid dreamer who goes beyond the boundaries of both psychology and religion. In the process, he stumbles upon the Inner Self.

While lucid (consciously aware) in the dream state and able to act and interact with dream figures, objects, and settings, dream expert Robert Waggoner experienced something transformative and unexpected. He was able to interact consciously with the dream observer-the apparent Inner Self-within the dream. At first this seemed shocking, even impossible, since psychology normally alludes to such theoretical inner aspects as the Subliminal Self, the Center, the Internal Self-Helper in vague and theoretical ways. Waggoner came to realize, however, that aware interaction with the Inner Self was not only possible, but actual and highly inspiring. He concluded that while aware in the dream state, one has both a psychological tool and a platform from which to understand dreaming and the larger picture of man’s psyche as well. Waggoner proposes 5 stages of lucid dreaming and guides readers through them, offering advice for those who have never experienced the lucid dream state and suggestions for how experienced lucid dreamers can advance to a new level.

Lucid Dreaming offers exciting insights and vivid illustrations that will intrigue not only avid dreamworkers but anyone who is interested in consciousness, identity, and the definition of reality.”

Peer Review & Reception

Dream researchers, writers, and heavyweights such as Jayne Gackenback, Robert Van De Castle, Robert Moss, and Stanley Krippner lended their endorsement to Waggoners new book on the back cover, and thus far, Amazon.com reviewers have all given it a 5 star rating, the highest rating possible, with some calling it the best book ever written on lucid dreaming. Big words!

Interview with Author — coming soon!

I will be interviewing Robert Waggoner on the subject of lucid dreaming and the themes discussed in his book.

I’m really excited for the opportunity to interview an individual who has logged over 1,000 lucid dreams, has 30 years of experience in the subject, and currently serves as the President-elect for IASD, The International Association for the Study of Dreams!

Be on the lookout for this combination book review/author interview next month here on Dreaming Life.

In the meantime, you can learn more about (or buy) his book on Amazon.com.

The idea is to throw out an interesting question to a group of people (some of the most interesting and intelligent people I know) and post the response for everyone to see.

The question is then open to everyone reading the blog, who can respond with a comment for all to see.

Thanks to Hatter and Chad for taking part in this months discussion. Anyone reading this who loves to talk about this kind of stuff and would like to be featured in next months post, email me!

Here’s the question . . . → Read More: Panel Discussion: Will we ever have a magic pill for lucid dreaming? (Plus the potential of DMT.)]]> The Panel Discussion is a new feature I would like to do every month.

The idea is to throw out an interesting question to a group of people (some of the most interesting and intelligent people I know) and post the response for everyone to see.

The question is then open to everyone reading the blog, who can respond with a comment for all to see.

Thanks to Hatter and Chad for taking part in this months discussion. Anyone reading this who loves to talk about this kind of stuff and would like to be featured in next months post, email me!

Here’s the question I presented to them and now to you:

The idea of a magic pill or substance that is highly successful in inducing lucid dreams is a popular thought in the lucid dreaming community. One only needs to look at lucid dream forums to find discussions of this type constantly creeping up, as people ask about the same substances over and over – like Vitamin B6 and Calea Zacatechichi, hoping to find something that works for them.

Despite some success reported with these substances for inducing vivid dreams, increasing dream recall, and even inducing lucid dreams, it seems we are a long way off from something that is reliable at producing lucid dreams with the pop of a pill.

However, as advances in neuroscience and medicine are continually applied for less-than-medicinal reasons (smart drugs / nootropics), do you think a real lucid dreaming pill is an inevitable development?

Does that thought immediately excite you or actually disgust you?

Furthermore, do you think certain psychoactive substances (DMT, for example) could already said to be a lucid dreaming “pill”?

Mad Hatter (from Dreaming to Infinity blog) Responds:

I think that question’s answer really depends on what you believe lucid dreaming to be. If you consider it to be completely contained within the brain, then I’d say yes, it’s inevitable that science will figure out the formula to trigger whatever needs to be triggered. If you believe that dreaming comes from somewhere else, and that the brain is merely the receiver or the tuning instrument, then perhaps science won’t quite ever be able to get it right. Right now I’m uncertain which I believe, but my bet would be that science figures out some method for accomplishing it.

Does that thought immediately excite you or actually disgust you? Why?

A little of both, honestly. I think dreaming holds so much potential that everybody should be able to experience it and utilize it in their life. However, I believe the value is also lessened if you don’t have to work for it or learn to control it. You lose something when you take away the path to becoming lucid and just get the end result.

Furthermore, do you think certain psychoactive substances (DMT, for example) could already said to be a lucid dreaming “pill”?

I’m unsure. Having not tried any of these substances I don’t really have the experience necessary to really make that call. I would say that I believe these substances might be useful for the same type of uses as dreaming, but I’m not sure the end result is the same.

Chad Responds:

Let me start by saying that I am by no means an expert on dreaming drugs. In all my years of lucid dreaming research I have not employed the standard oneirogens such as Vitamin B6 and others. The chemical research I have done has been with the dreaming possibilities of hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD, Psylocibin, and DXM. I have avoided other, more standard drugs due to skepticism. Conflicting reports seem to show that a lucidity inducing drug is still far away. I also tend to think the placebo effect is responsible for a great deal of success reports with these drugs.

I would be among the first to purchase such a lucidity-inducing drug if it were ever to be perfected. Some see chemically induced experiences as being unnatural or not as meaningful as experiences that occur ‘naturally’, but I am not one of them. I firmly believe that science has given and will continue to give the psychonaut a powerful arsenal for self-exploration.

I do not think that substances, such as DMT, can be considered authentic lucidity inducing drugs. Such drugs are no doubt a powerful means to inducing visionary experiences but not necesarily the experience we call lucid dreams. I have observed, and often remarked upon, the similarity between psychedelic experiences and the lucid dream, and I believe the two to be closely related. It has been one of my experimentation goals to explore this relationship further. Below I list two experiments that I have performed and may be repeated by the interested explorer. I have achieved great results with both experiments. They can be repeated and different results gained each time. The prerequisites for the experiments vary but are mostly concerned with prior psychedelic and lucid experiences.

Experiment 1 (Down The Rabbit Hole)

1. Set up lucidity. Practice lucidity induction method of choice. Remind yourself to do the drug experiment once lucid.
2. Upon attaining lucidity, create/find a pill that ‘contains’ LSD or a similar drug
3. Take the pill
4. Keep a close eye on mind/dream interaction – how the two influence each other during the experiment
5. If you want to get more in depth, try creating your idea of a perfect atmosphere in which to conduct the experiment before taking the pill.
6. Try to remain focused on lucidity. This might become difficult as the dream/psychedelic experience strengthens, especially as tripping often raises the question as to whether one is dreaming or not.
7. As always, record results. If you’ve never taken hallucinogens, what was the experience like? If you have taken hallucinogens before, did your dream experience simulate your waking experience? To what degree?

Experiment 2 (Lucid Brainwash)

1. Obtain an audio format lucid induction program. You can use a self-hypnosis CD or make a tape yourself. For my version of this experiment I used a 30 minute lucidity-trance induction tape I got from the Lucidity Institute.
2. Set up your room / area where you are going to be taking your trip. Make sure the CD or tape is ready to go, sound level ok, something comfy to lay on while listening, etc.
3. Ingest goodly amount of hallucinogen of your choice.
4. Wait until the drug starts having a strong effect – then lay down comfortably and start the audio program. This is best done in the dark or in very dim lighting.
5. Put the CD on repeat or make sure to rewind the tape. Listen to this, while relaxed, as many times as you can make yourself do so. Just relax. Don’t try to do anything. You’re just letting your brain soak up the instructions.

Good luck and good dreaming! If you decide to try either of these experiments I would love to hear about your results. You can reach me at my MySpace page: www.myspace.com/oneironaught

What do you think about the idea of a lucid dreaming? Will it ever happen? Is it inherently a flawed idea? Where does DMT fit into all this, if at all? I would like to open this discussion up to all my readers. What do you think?

Related Posts:

The Biological Basis Of Mysticism? A Review of DMT: The Spirit Molecule

My Mind Felt As If Were Floating Away From My Body – Chad’s DXM Report

Exploring the Oneiroverse with Chad Watts: On Lucid Dreams, Entheogens, and the Spiritual Experience.

The Shamans Dreamtime – My Diet With Ajo Sacha

Shaman Journeys Into The Dreamtime: An Interview with Juan from Dream Magick

My Vitamin B6 Experience Report

My Calea Z Experience Report

“Why do I want to have Lucid Dreams?”

“What’s the point?” I had the hardest time trying to answer her in a way that would convince her. It got me thinking about it and so this post is my own answer to these two questions…

My Gut-level response:

“What do you mean? The feeling of becoming consciously aware that you are dreaming, while you are dreaming, is fucking awesome!!”

My elegant response:

Imagine whatever it is you’re doing right now – look around at the people near you, the walls surrounding you, your hands – and think of what it would . . . → Read More: What’s the Point of Lucid Dreaming?]]> My wife casually asked the other day:

“Why do I want to have Lucid Dreams?”

“What’s the point?”

I had the hardest time trying to answer her in a way that would convince her. It got me thinking about it and so this post is my own answer to these two questions…

My Gut-level response:

“What do you mean? The feeling of becoming consciously aware that you are dreaming, while you are dreaming, is fucking awesome!!”

My elegant response:

Imagine whatever it is you’re doing right now – look around at the people near you, the walls surrounding you, your hands – and think of what it would mean to you right now if this was a dream. What would you do?

Knowing our minds are capable of creating such an experience is of infinite intrigue to me. The immediate coolness of just experimenting in the dream world – flying, moving through objects, moving things with your mind, exploring the dreamscape, talking with dream characters – this is all awesome and why I’m interested in lucid dreaming, but it’s only half the equation.

The other half is this:

I want to use lucid dreaming as a means of understanding consciousness, the mind, and how our brain/mind works to process experiences into reality.

If we can become conscious within a dream and experience this world just like we experience waking life, what does it mean then about who we are and our source of awareness? What can the dreaming mind teach us about how we process and understand experiences? What do dreams tell us about reality?

Beyond this philosophical approach to lucid dreaming, there are a few specific reasons I do want to have lucid dreams. Here, I present to you my lucid dream to-do list.

Meditation and Mystical Experiences. I’ve read that people who meditate in waking life have had intense experience become lucid and then meditating in the dream. They report seeing fantastic colors and a sense of ballooning awareness, ego loss, and other mystical sensations. I want to experience this.

Tripping. I’ve had dreams where I took acid, been drunk, and been stoned. In each instance I was not lucid – it was just part of the dream. Each time, the resulting experience was much of what it would have been in waking life had it happened for real. Being able to have a realistic and mind-blowing psychedelic experience in a lucid dream has been confirmed to me by numerous people; somehow, our mind can recreate these experiences if we simply dream it up, consciously. This is amazing and I want to experience it.

Moving my sense of awareness beyond my body. I would very much like to attempt to ‘deconstruct’ my sense of awareness within the dream, becoming less and less of my body, and seeing what happens. I’ve heard about 360 vision – is this possible? This sounds morbid, but I wonder what would happen if I plucked one of my eyeballs out and tried looking around with it? What if I ripped my head off and held it with my own hand? It’s funny, because I know it’s all an illusion that my sense of awareness is coming from my dream head – how can I get past this? Could I project my awareness onto an object in a dream? Another character? Could I merge with another person? If I’m having a lucid dream, I understand that everything I’m experiencing is a projection of and contained within my own mind; how can I take my sense of awareness and expand it accordingly?

Flying & Soaring through the universe. Flying is a fantastic experience. What more is there to say?

Calling myself on the phone. Could I have a conversation with myself? What about other people?

Out of Body Experiences. While I am skeptical of OBE, there is an obvious connection to lucids and the OBE. I want to explore this connection and experience what is known as an OBE, even if it’s just taking place in my mind.

I’d like to know what you think.

Are my reasons similar to most? What’s the point of lucid dreaming for you personally? Why do you bother?